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chucky5150
Divers do it Deeper
join:2001-11-03
New Iberia, LA

1 edit

chucky5150

Member

[Help] Removing stuck brake drum

Car: 2002ish Dodge Neon w/ auto trans.

The right rear tire doesn't move one way or another. As far as I know the parking break wasn't used, I'll ask her when she's home if she uses it.

The car has only been parked for a day or two. I got the wheel off and now I'm trying to get the brake drum off. I don't know if it's just the shoes stuck to the drum or if something broke and got stuck between the shoe and drum. There is some clicking noise when the tire tries to move.

Any hints and / or tips would be greatly appreciated

Thank you.

On a side note the car is from up north in the snow / rock salt area.
cjski
The Wheel Weaves As The Wheel Will
Premium Member
join:2001-01-04
Sun City, CA

1 recommendation

cjski

Premium Member

disclaimer: i'm no mechanic

what i've done in the past to remove stuck drums, is smack it lightly around the circumfrence with a hammer to see if that free's it up. (think stuck lid on glass jar)

if that doesn't work, i think there are threaded holes in the drum that you can crew the right size bolts into to push it off.

if the brakes are expanded too much and it still won't come off, then you'll have to find the access hole behind the brake assembly, that allows you access to the star wheel with a flat blade screwdriver, to relieve brake pressure manually.

sdgthy
@optonline.net

sdgthy to chucky5150

Anon

to chucky5150
Did you try to back off the pads? A proper spoon is easiest, but a screwdriver works if you don't have one.
18172841 (banned)
join:2001-10-06
Lagrangeville, NY

18172841 (banned) to chucky5150

Member

to chucky5150
E-brake is probably still on before doing more I would check to see if the e-brake was used. They tend to rust up and then stick. You can not pull the drum off with the brakes on, It's going to damage the hardware. As it was said try to back them off if the e-brake cable is not stuck on.

I hate drum brakes someone who likes them more may like be more helpful =p

Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium Member
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30

Doctor Olds to chucky5150

Premium Member

to chucky5150
If the drum doesn't turn (your description wasn't clear) and it is stuck/locked up then you can try releasing the self adjuster tension by turning the star adjuster wheel through the hole in the backing plate (if they were kind enough to include one) backward to release the shoe pressure. Or if it is the wheel bearing, then the brakes are likely not the problem and you may have a damaged hub or spindle.

chucky5150
Divers do it Deeper
join:2001-11-03
New Iberia, LA

chucky5150

Member

Sorry it wasn't clear. Drum does not turn.

Parking brake was not used.

I didn't see any place for an adjustment on the backing plate. I only seen the brake line, bleeder and parkin' cable. I'll take a better look at it in the morning.

sdgthy
@optonline.net

sdgthy

Anon

Normally it's not punched out until it's been used. A return spring kit includes a rubber plug to fill the slot after service. You did also get a return spring kit (they normally should be replaced during service), correct? As a rule, I'd also include an adjuster kit as the star adjuster is usually no longer functional.

Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium Member
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30

Doctor Olds to chucky5150

Premium Member

to chucky5150
said by chucky5150:

Sorry it wasn't clear. Drum does not turn.

Parking brake was not used.

I didn't see any place for an adjustment on the backing plate. I only seen the brake line, bleeder and parkin' cable. I'll take a better look at it in the morning.
The wheel is locked up/the drum will not come off, but does it look like it moves the slightest bit in/out at the center where the drum centering hole has contact with the wheel bearing hub or is it rusted tight there? If it does move at the hub contact point, does it feel like the brake hold down springs may be what is allowing the slight in/out movement or does the hub also move in/out with the drum as one piece?

If you do need hardware, it is best to get a Combi-kit which is new Hold down and new Return springs instead of buying them as two separate kits. Then if you do need the left and/or right adjusters buy the adjuster kits instead which are better than getting the star wheel adjuster alone as the kit has the adjuster assembly, the adjuster lever that rides on the star wheel and any link cables / pre-load springs that are separate parts if you don't get the adjuster kits.

chucky5150
Divers do it Deeper
join:2001-11-03
New Iberia, LA

chucky5150

Member

Picture time

Click for full size
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Rust that came out with the drum. The brake pads also came out...
Brake drum is off and the hub spins just fine.

Ok, I hate working on drum brakes. Hated them in auto shop.

Just what is the best way to take the shoes off and what springs need to be replaced?

Any special tools that help and don't cost an arm and leg?
dipweed23
join:2009-07-21
Ypsilanti, MI

dipweed23

Member

»denlorstools.com/hom ··· 848.html
To give you an idea as to what tools you COULD need.
I always use a screwdriver and a hold down spring remover, as I don't do enough brake jobs to warrant buying the "proper" tools. Never had a failure yet.
If you don't do breaks a lot, you can pick up this kit and save some money. WARNING, it will likely be like the rest of their tools and not last more than a single job or two.
»harborfreight.com/cp ··· mber=188
A repair manual for the vehicle is always helpful if the car is more than a few years old. Those will point out any special techniques you may need to use, give specialty tool numbers and alternatives if they aren't available.

Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium Member
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30

Doctor Olds to chucky5150

Premium Member

to chucky5150
Craftsman Brake Spring Pliers - $17.99
»sears.com/shc/s/p_10 ··· 1x00003a


Craftsman Brake Pliers


Lisle 11260 Double Ended Brake Spring Pliers - $16.94
»sjdiscounttools.com/ ··· 260.html


Lisle 11260 Brake Tool


Lisle 11260 Double Ended Brake Spring Pliers - $21.33
»amazon.com/Lisle-112 ··· 0&sr=8-1
Price: $21.33 & eligible for FREE Super Saver Shipping on orders over $25.


Lisle 11260 Brake Tool

chucky5150
Divers do it Deeper
join:2001-11-03
New Iberia, LA

chucky5150

Member

Re: [Help] Removing stuck brake drum

Cool got the Brake Spring Pliers, shoes, and new springs.

I didn't get a new adjuster as that still looks goodish. How far back do I need to set the adjuster when I put this all back together?

Thank you

Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium Member
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30

1 edit

Doctor Olds

Premium Member

2002 : DODGE : NEON SE : 2.0L 1996cc 122 cubic inch L4 FI (C) : Brake/Wheel Hub : Drum Brake Hardware Kit
»rockauto.com/catalog ··· ype,1752




2002 : DODGE : NEON SE : 2.0L 1996cc 122 cubic inch L4 FI (C) : Brake/Wheel Hub : Drum Brake Self Adjuster Repair Kit
»rockauto.com/catalog ··· ype,1904


Left Rear

Right Rear


2002 : DODGE : NEON SE : 2.0L 1996cc 122 cubic inch L4 FI (C) : Brake/Wheel Hub : Brake Shoe
»rockauto.com/catalog ··· ype,1688




You should have all the above and where the shoes touch the backing plate all rust needs to be removed and then there needs to be a light dab of high temp grease to lubricate the sideways sliding of the shoes. The adjusters threads should be lightly lubed with a thin coat of oil and the end caps should have a dab of grease inside and on the pin the cup spins on to lubricate it and have a little extra reserve.

The old parts should be tossed as the rust and bending has malformed the levers.

You put the shoes on and temporarily adjust them while testing the fit of the drum until it just barely touches when spinning by hand if you don't have the setup tool below.

Brake Resetting Gauge
Manufacturer: KD Tools
Item Number: KDT3377
»redhillsupply.com/KD ··· 3377.htm


KD Tools no. 3377


Westward 1EKA5 Brake Resetting Gauge
»amazon.com/Westward- ··· -2-fkmr0




Note: The new drums will have a anti-corrosion coating on the inside that has to be either washed off with soap and water or washed/sprayed out with brake cleaner. Clean only the area that the shoes will make contact and leave the rest protected with the anti-rust/anti-corrosion coating.




chucky5150
Divers do it Deeper
join:2001-11-03
New Iberia, LA

chucky5150

Member

bleh. This is turning into a most costly project than I wanted

I'm also going to replace the drums. While I'm at it I'll get a Self Adjuster Repair Kit. "Do it right or don't do it at all"

I may not hate drum brakes, but I really really really don't like them.

I'll be at just under $100 by the time I get new drums. At least both sides will be new.

Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium Member
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30

Doctor Olds

Premium Member

said by chucky5150:

bleh. This is turning into a most costly project than I wanted

I'm also going to replace the drums. While I'm at it I'll get a Self Adjuster Repair Kit. "Do it right or don't do it at all"

I may not hate drum brakes, but I really really really don't like them.
It is always best to do it right the first time as having to redo it when you left out a simple item/simple step really sucks plus doesn't make the owner too happy with you after getting their vehicle back only having to comeback to get addition work on the same part[s]. Do it all and do it right so it will stay fixed (the parts that you worked on).

HTH

chucky5150
Divers do it Deeper
join:2001-11-03
New Iberia, LA

chucky5150

Member

Well the car at least moves now. I'll do the driver side tomorrow.

Total cost (not counting time): $125.80

Does anyone know about what this would cost in the shop?

New springs, New shoes, new drums, and new adjusters.
cjski
The Wheel Weaves As The Wheel Will
Premium Member
join:2001-01-04
Sun City, CA

1 edit

cjski

Premium Member

hey chucky, it looks like your car has the same setup that mine has for the rear drums...i'm curious, how difficult was it to reinstall the shoes with the right tools? i did mine a couple of months ago, just using screwdrivers and pliers, and i just did not have enough hands, or fingers...or brains to get those f'ing shoes back on! i ended up taking off the hub/bearing assembly (it's just 4 bolts that you access from the back...), and that seemed to be a lot easier.

chucky5150
Divers do it Deeper
join:2001-11-03
New Iberia, LA

chucky5150

Member

Well this was my first time working on drum brakes. It was a pain in the ass. There isn't really enough room to get the tip of the brake spring pliers in to get the spring off or on. I ended up using needle nose pliers and a screw driver.

One time I did have an extra hand helping me. The rest of the times I just held the pad back with a screw driver and my leg.

I never want to work on another drum brake again. It wasn't that bad after the third time I put it all together just to take it apart again. Although, I did have some extra parts at the end. (just kiddin )

neonhomer
KK4BFN
Premium Member
join:2004-01-27
Edgewater, FL

neonhomer to chucky5150

Premium Member

to chucky5150
said by chucky5150:

Does anyone know about what this would cost in the shop?

Add another $150 or so to the price of your parts.

I hate drum brakes, but they are a necessary evil on vehicles that did not have a disc brake option.

I always used pliers to reinstall hold down springs, and a screwdriver to install springs. Did a brake job on my old Dodge Diplomat, and bought a brake spring tool. What a friggin difference the right tool makes!!

Cho Baka
MVM
join:2000-11-23
there

Cho Baka to chucky5150

MVM

to chucky5150
Awesome pics.

I am from the salt belt, and I haven't seen anything that bad in at least a decade. I am used to cars that have a little tighter clearance between the drums and backing plates. This helps to keep the salt spray out, reducing corrosion issues.

Kind of a shame that Chrysler didn't specify a better plating/coating for all those parts. Both shoes fully delaminated? That is a little scary.

Please check the parking brake cables to make sure they aren't dragging, and take a peek inside the dust boots of the wheel cylinders to make sure they aren't starting to leak.

Making sure that the wheel cylinders aren't seized would also be a good bet.

FWIW, I also hate drum brakes.

sdgthy
@optonline.net

sdgthy to neonhomer

Anon

to neonhomer
said by neonhomer:

I always used pliers to reinstall hold down springs, and a screwdriver to install springs. Did a brake job on my old Dodge Diplomat, and bought a brake spring tool. What a friggin difference the right tool makes!!
The right tool makes it much easier. Lacking a brake spring tool, I've found vice grips work best.

chucky5150
Divers do it Deeper
join:2001-11-03
New Iberia, LA

chucky5150 to Cho Baka

Member

to Cho Baka
said by Cho Baka:

Awesome pics.

I am from the salt belt, and I haven't seen anything that bad in at least a decade. I am used to cars that have a little tighter clearance between the drums and backing plates. This helps to keep the salt spray out, reducing corrosion issues.

Kind of a shame that Chrysler didn't specify a better plating/coating for all those parts. Both shoes fully delaminated? That is a little scary.
The rear brakes where changed just 4ish years ago. There was still ~50% left of the pads. Yes, both shoes were fully delaminated.
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